Searching For Answers?

Can God create A Rock bigger than he can lift?

A Response to Dr. Carroll’s Question in Class

at John A. Logan College
August 30, 2010
 

The following was taken from Dr Norman Geisler’s book, Unshakeable Foundations pages 66-68

Dr. Carroll you asked at the end of class the other day if God could make a rock bigger than he can move?  We are grateful for your thought provoking question as it has been used once again by God to help those of us who have faith in a infinite God to have that faith strengthened by your very question.

Let’s assume that you are attempting to be logical in your question give for us to consider, which since you are a professor who has studied in the university we must assume, at least hopefully that is the case.  Otherwise we are sitting in a class that is being taught by someone who cannot think logically.

As students who long to learn and study the implications of truth we have decided to think the best of your intentions.

So begins our discovery by studying the question you asked us to consider.

Can God make a rock bigger than he can move?  ON the surface this question seems to put all theists on the defensive for either way they answer they are placed in a very difficult position.  FI God can make a rock bigger than he can move then he cannot be all powerful and if he cannot then he cannot be all powerful either.  It seems to be that we are left with a God who is not what we first claimed him to be and thus you have proved your point that the God that we believe in does not exist, thereby leaving us with only your  position that god does not exist and we are left to fend for ourselves in this hostile and dark and foreboding universe.

It seems your question has placed us in a no win situation, but this is only what it seems.  We have all learned that appearances are not often what they seem so it is with your question.

Dr Carroll we want to answer your question not on emotional ground but on logical grounds.  For us to have a meaningful discussion about this rock and this God we must come to an understanding of our terms.  For our discussion to be meaningful in any way we must mean the same thing by these terms and our definitions must remain constant throughout our discussion.

For our discussion to proceed we must reach a definition of what we mean by a rock and what we mean by God.  Let’s assume that you mean what most dictionaries define as a rock.  “A piece of hard matter usually composed of one or more physical elements that ahs some size and shape to it.  Basically a piece of hard physical matter that has a finite size to it.  SO let us say that a rock is a finite size of a very hard piece of matter.  Are you with me so far? Good, this is not that hard.

Now we must define what we mean by God?  As per most discussions about God and I think even in this discussion we can assume that by God you mean and infinite being who has no size for God is infinite in size.  Are we safe in this assumption? If we were to consult many dictionaries we would find something fairly similar.

So now we have our definitions let us begin our discussion.  You asked the question, Can God make a rock bigger than he can move?  TO be consistent with our definitions and remember we have to in order to have any meaningful conversation, which I assume a college professor would wan to have with their students let us continue with our dilemma.

Can God (an infinite being without size or limit) make a rock (a finite piece of organic matter composed of one or more minerals) bigger than he can move? Now we see the problem with such a question.  It defies the rules of logic and this is why it is not possible to answer the question for to do so would be to violate all rules of logic by which we can have any meaningful discussion.

What you have just asked us to consider is Can God make an infinite finite piece of matter that he cannot move.  This question violates the rules of logic and turns out to be utter nonsense.  We believe that God can do miracles but he does not do nonsense, for the God that we serve desires to be known and he has shown himself to be eternally the same yesterday today and forever. So even in this question that you have asked Dr. Carroll you have helped us to see how God and his truth are inescapable.

We as your students are even more grateful for your teaching now that we have found our faith strengthened by such discussion.

We welcome any more questions you may have so we may grow in our faith as we seek to follow Christ more clearly in the coming days and years.

What evidence is there that God exists?

“An atheist cannot find God for the same reason a criminal cannot find a policeman,

 they are not willing to look for him.”

            A student at Western Illinois University stepped out from the crowd and asked, “What evidence do you have that God exists?” I responded, “There have been numerous books written to give evidence of God’s existence but none of them can give you absolute positive proof of God’s existence.  I cannot prove to you that my wife loves me, or that the sun is going to come up tomorrow morning, but I can point you to some evidence that indicates that there is sufficient reason for believing such statements.”

            “I have evidence of my wife’s love in that for the past twenty five years she has not poisoned me when she has cooked a meal.  Based on the evidence that she has not poisoned me for the past 25 years, I do not worry about eating her cooking.  Also based on her record that she has not stabbed me in the back when I sleep next to her every night, I do not lay awake at night worrying about my safety sleeping next to her. 

The evidence is that she has demonstrated over the past 25 years that she is committed to me and she really does want what is best for me.         

            “I cannot prove to you that the sun is going to come up tomorrow but the overwhelming evidence is that tomorrow when I wake up the sun will also rise to meet me.  Therefore I do not worry about such things.”

            There is another even more compelling reason to believe in the existence of the God of the Bible. We find this information through the study of Information Science.

For matters of reasoning, let assume I give you a sheet of paper with B A T on it.  What do you think you have on the paper?

            Many will respond that you have the word “Bat” on the paper.  But that is not accurate.  All anyone can know, at first, is that you have some lines and globs of ink on the page that take a certain form.  Unless you have someone to tell you what these lines and globs of ink represent (the code) you are left in the dark.  An Australian Aborigine would look at the page and be completely clueless about the message.

            Now let’s assume that you have the letters S T A R on the page and I tell you that they are English letters.  Now what do you have?  This time you are fairly certain of what you have and you answer quickly, “Oh, that is easy, you have the word Star.”  Now I expose your prejudice and answer, “No, you do not have the word star.  At the present you only have the letters S T A R.  What could you have on this page?”

            Some brighter student replies, “Rats!” To which I say, “You might possibly be correct.”  Another student quickly speaks up, “Arts.”  Again my response, “You may be correct.”  Now another student, even more brilliant than the others, “How can you ever know what the message means even if you have the evidence?”  To which I reply, “Now you have asked the right question.”

            Unless you have the code (S T A R) and understand that these are English letters, you will never be able to get the message.  But even if you have the code, you still cannot understand its meaning (explanation of the Code) unless you have someone to explain and give order to the code.”

            This is why everyone in the world has the same evidence as everyone else but they all reach different conclusions about the evidence.  Unless you have the person who gave the code, as well as the person to explain the order and meaning of the code, you will never get it right.

            When you look at the phrase godisnowhere what do you see?  It all depends on how you separate the letters of the code.  Some will see God is nowhere! But for those who have the code and its meaning and order explained by the giver and explainer of the code, there will be a completely different conclusion, which is, “God is now here!”

            As I was explaining this concept at an open forum with a philosophy professor at Southern Illinois University, a student asked, “Phil, what evidence do you have that there has been a God who has invaded history to give us the proper meaning of the code?”

            What a great question!  Some of the evidence we have is in the area of fulfilled prophecy.  I told the story of a student who had asked the same question several months ago at an open-air dialogue at the University of Illinois.  Immediately after he asked the question, an Anti-Israeli demonstration marched right through our open-air dialogue with chants of hatred toward Israel.  After the demonstrators left, the students at the dialogue were noticeably shaken.  I turned to the student who asked for evidence of God invading history.  I asked, “What geographical location on the globe are you thinking of right now?”

            He replied, “Israel.  But what has that got to do with anything?’

            I asked, “Any specific city in Israel?”

            “Jerusalem,” but I don’t see your point.”

            “Let me explain.  You asked for evidence of God invading history.  Did you know that the Bible says that God knows every word on your tongue before you speak it? (Psalms 139)  He even knew what questions you would ask this afternoon.   He knew you would ask a question that needed evidence to support it.  Therefore, He even arranged this demonstration to interrupt our dialogue so your attention would be turned to think about Jerusalem.

            “Now, why Jerusalem?  You see, 2500 years ago God knew you would be in need of evidence of the trustworthiness of the Bible, so He predicted that as we approach the end of history all the nations would be focused on a little insignificant town from 500 B.C. named Jerusalem.  A prophet named Zechariah made this prediction,

¹ This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: ² "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. ³ On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.  Zech 12:1-3 (NIV)

            “The reason you thought of Jerusalem this afternoon is because God knew you would need evidence.  He ordered these circumstances so you would have the evidence you need.  It is in this area of fulfilled prophecy that we have sufficient evidence to support the integrity of the Scriptures and thereby the Scriptures tell us of our need for Christ.  My hope is that you will turn from your sin and trust in Christ so you will be able to escape the coming judgment.”

            Certainly this does not answer all your questions about evidence, but my hope is that you will be stirred to study the Scriptures further and investigate their claims.  Happy investigating!

Small Group Discussion Questions:

1.      What evidence did you have that helped you trust in Christ?

2.      Who in your circle of influence needs more evidence?  Take a moment and pray that God would order their steps so they too can see the real evidence of God’s working in history.

3.      The greatest evidence Jesus gave us was in John 13:34-35.  How can you live this out to give evidence to those without Christ?

4.      Answers in Genesis produces some excellent videos that provide detailed evidences from the Scripture.   They can be ordered from   Answersingenesis.org

How can you be sure of your relationship to God?

“If there were no God there would be no atheists.”

G.K. Chesterton

            I regularly hear from students who have grown up in Christian homes and go to college only to have their faith thrown on the rocks of the current cultural challenges.  In the midst of so much uncertainty, is there any solid rock we can stand on?

            Whenever I hear of students losing their faith in college, I discover there are usually specific events leading to the disappearance of their faith.    The first and most predominant event is that the student begins to neglect private reading and meditation on Scripture.  Soon after this, they are presented with challenges from a professor of philosophy, or possibly some other professor, as they openly ridicule the Bible and the Christian faith. 

Since the student has not been trained in how to respond to these challenges, he or she begins to adopt the thinking of the culture.  Some quotes from the culture about the Bible follow: “The Bible really is a good book but it is not really different than Shakespeare or Plato”;  “nice book but not directly from God”; a book written by male chauvinists to keep women enslaved”; “a very nice but outdated religious text.”

            When the pressure of studies overwhelms them, they slowly outgrow their discipline of daily Bible reading.  And for a while nothing seems different.  They get good grades, even though they neglect the Scriptures. 

            What does all this have to do with my assurance of my relationship with God?  It has everything to do with it.  The only place in the Bible where God specifically promises to prosper a person is in this area of Scripture meditation. These promises are found in Joshua 1:6-9, Psalms 1:1-3 and James 1:22-25. They all contain the thought that anyone who daily studies and meditates on the Scripture and seeks to obey its teaching will be blessed.

            In John 8:31-32, ³¹ To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. ³² Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

            I struggled with assurance for the first nine years of my Christian life.  There were times when I felt like I was exactly on target and doing what God wanted me to do and during those times there was no doubt at all.  But the times that were so distressing to me were the times when I was not doing the things I knew I should be doing.

            How do you find assurance when your life is not in perfect harmony with God?  What happens when you know what you are doing is not right?  What I used to do when I felt guilty for not doing what I knew to be right was to make more promises to God that I would read more Scripture, I would talk to more people about Christ, I would fast more, and pray more.  This all worked well for a short time but it never really took care of my lack of assurance.  As long as I was faithful to following the disciplines I was ok, but whenever I stepped off the righteous ritual wagon I felt even worse.  What sort of person am I that my commitment to Christ is so short lived?  Did I really know Christ, or was I just deceiving myself? And on and on the conversation in my head went.

            The freedom for me came at a retreat in May of 1986.  I had been plagued by doubts about my conversion for the past year since I had become a campus pastor of a successful college ministry.  Thoughts in my head constantly accused me of my lack of faithfulness to Christ.  During this retreat I decided that I was no longer to play this game.  I determined to stay up through the night and find my answer or I would resign from my ministry and go do something else.

            I began my quest for an answer around 10:15 p.m.  I opened my journal and began to pour out my complaints to God.  I wrote, “I need to know if I know you or not, God.  If I do not, then I will quit playing this game and resign and do something else.  I am going to stay up all night and seek after you. If I do not get my answer by sunrise, then I will quit.”

            I began to read large portions of Scripture and pray and cry out to God.  I searched my heart for what I really wanted out of life.  I was married to a great wife, had a tremendous young daughter of 18 months, was well thought of by many in the church, and on the outside looked like a very successful minister with college students.  What else could a guy want?

            That was just it.  I had it, but it did not satisfy the deepest longings of my life.  I was still unsure of where I stood with God.  I had prayed and trusted Christ over 9 years ago, I had memorized large portions of Scripture, and even regularly and openly shared about my faith in Christ with others, but the settled assurance was still absent.

            Through the night, as I read and meditated over the Scripture that God had brought to my mind, I found my heart being renewed and strengthened.  Around 3 a.m., I asked God to speak to me clearly.  I needed to know.  After I had prayed that prayer, a passage from Romans Chapter 7 came to my mind.

¹⁵ I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. ¹⁶ And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. ¹⁷ As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. ¹⁸ I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. ¹⁹ For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. ²⁰ Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
²¹ So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. ²² For in my inner being I delight in God's law; ²³ but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. ²⁴ What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? ²⁵ Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:15-25 (NIV)

            This was a passage I had committed to memory years before, not knowing how the seed of God’s Word would return to me years later.  Around 3 a.m. I heard a voice, not audible, but nevertheless very real, which asked me a question. “Phil, there is no one else here at this moment.  What do you really desire more than anything else right now?” 

I thought about that for a short minute but quickly responded, “I just want to know you, God, I don’t care about anything else.  I don’t care what else happens, I just want to know that I know You!”

            The next question I heard was, “Phil, when did you first become concerned about knowing me?”

            My response, “Nine years ago when I turned from my sins and received Christ.”

            The next thing I heard was, “Who do you think gave you that desire to know me?”

            It was then that Romans 7:22-25 rose to the top of my mind. . “²² For in my inner being I delight in God's law; ²³ but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. ²⁴ What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? ²⁵ Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!” Romans 7:15-25 (NIV)

            I knew then at that moment that I had connected with God for sure.  He had placed that desire for Him in my heart nine years ago and now it was all making sense.  Even if nothing makes sense in this world, I know that I know God.  From that moment on I have never doubted my connection with God.  I have, however, doubted His ability to use me in my fallen, imperfect state--but that is another question.

            So, in essence, how can you be sure that you know God?  It will take time and a serious pursuit of the God who has pursued you to this moment.  Why not plan this next week to get away with just your Scripture and spend some time seeking out after God?

Small Group Discussion Questions: